It’s an ‘Ask the Audience’ day, except less about trim colors and more about the fate of our country and all our children. Waking up this morning was pretty horrifying for many of us. And staring at two tiny children who want to build rockets out of legos with their mama and dada for two hours when we both just wanted to cry and cry was quite the challenge. Like many of us I don’t have the words. I don’t understand. I just keep thinking “WHY???” and “HOW???”
We all live in these bubbles of people who are just like us. Nobody I know personally voted for Trump, unless they are shielding me from that truth. But 50% of Americans did and many of you are in that category, right? So in the spirit of learning, understanding, engaging, and processing I’d love to hear from any of you who voted for Trump. I’d love to know why. Because the story that is in my head is a very dark one. Is it because of the economy? Immigration? Because you like him? Because you really don’t like Hillary? My uber driver told me he voted for Trump because he didn’t think that a woman would be respected internationally. That shocked me for sure, but was still enlightening as to why someone would not vote for her.
Since I know that most of my audience is on the liberal side, I challenge all of you to converse respectfully and to really try to understand because that is all we can do at this point. We are stronger together but right now we feel pretty divided. I want to understand so I can help. My bubble could use some breaking and I’d love to invite inside of that bubble, people who can help clarify why you would vote for this man, despite his faults.
Hopefully I won’t regret this. And we do have a design post planned for today, if I can pull myself out of this haze to finish writing it.
So folks, why did you vote for Trump? And what are going to be the hopefully positive outcomes of a Trump presidency? I genuinely really would like to know so I, too, can muster more hope for us.
*Please, for those of you who are as disappointed as I am, use this as an opportunity to promote hope over hate and listen instead of shaming – If it gets out of hand I will pull this post down. Let’s TRY to figure out how to move forward together and learn from this experience as Americans (and yes, you don’t have to leave your real name – it can be absolutely anonymous).
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Did not vote for Trump but just wanted to chip in say you are both brave/crazy. Hoping this can start a healing conversation or just remain civil. Must say, I have low expectations.
Ditto what Alex said. And thank you for speaking out — and for bravely/crazily trying to engage, Emily. I am heartbroken and immobilized with grief. I know we’ve got to move forward and to never lose faith on a kind, just, responsible society. But living in a conservative area (hello, Orange County) where many of my colleagues are high-fiving each other, I feel divided in my heart from my neighbors. Deep breath. Growth is rarely linear. I will try to believe in this country and in humanity, still.
BE the change you want. Use YOUR mouth to act the talk the way you want to be spoken to. use the legs God gave you to go out into the world and live how you want the world to live. That’s it. Don’t have low expectations or you will spread bitterness. Try constantly to be better than that.
I totally agree. It doesn’t matter if you are Democrat or Republican. I look around and see a bunch of adults complaining about the world we live in, before the election, even. I say, get out from behind your computers, put down your cell phone, get out of your house and GO HELP!! Especially, for me, help children. Be a Cub Scout, Boy Scout, Girl Scout, or Brownie leader. Big a Big Brother or Big Sister. Call your local hospital and volunteer to help hold the crack babies. Go to an “Old Folks Home” or a VA hospital and volunteer!!… Read more »
I am very anti-Trump, and so disappointed in the results of this election, but I think that part of the problem is assumption on the part of liberals that everything we do is growth, without inviting both sides into the conversation. I think the reason why we were so blindsided is because we operate on the idea that everything we do is “progress” without stopping to truly consider and listen to other view points with respect rather than just jumping to the assumption that they are narrow-minded or bigots. I think this is a wake-up call to us to widen… Read more »
Wonderful viewpoint- I’m a moderate conservative and this is my biggest beef with my liberal friends- they assume I think like they do and anyone who disagrees is an uneducated moron. I truly think this time around it was more about the trade deals that have hurt people in certain areas of the country.
I too am a moderate conservative, or as I like to call it, social liberal, fiscal conservative. Your comment is everything I feel. I vote on economic issues and international policy – social issues will move along with or without a president’s support. Eight years ago, Obama said marriage should be between a man and a woman, and during his presidency that issue has evolved drastically. I am tired of people on the far left (and some on the right) saying that those of us who voted for Trump are racists or uneducated. I have a Masters degree and a… Read more »
Also, if you are a podcast listener, I recommend you check out the Cracked podcast’s episode from about a month ago called “Trump Country”. It’s led by two liberals who self-proclaimed during that episode that they will not be voting for Trump, but they did a FANTASTIC job delving into some of the demographic issues that have led to the support for a candidate like Trump. It was insightful and actually helped me put into words the gut feeling I’d had in the Midwest since the day Trump first started looking like a realistic candidate.
I’m the same as you politically. I have friends of all types and knew people who voted for each candidate. Because I have a master’s degree my liberal friends think
I’m the same as them and I’ve always felt that I could never share my beliefs without being condemned and called names. I’m not a racist, bigot, or any of the above…I’m adopting from Honduras for goodness sakes, but my beliefs have stayed hidden and never discussed bc I never liked arguing.
To echo so many excellent comment already made and show agreement with them, my view of effective government is to address economics and foreign policy in a fiscally responsible manner, putting the best interests of our country first. Legislating behavior and social issues should not be the main role of government – we the people, on the ground and in our communities, set that tone. I hold a master’s degree and find far more prejudice in my outspoken liberal friends that assume I agree with them and ridicule others who don’t, belittling the very people who serve the disenfranchised through… Read more »
Bless you Erica and your sweet, sweet heart. My vote was a vote against Hillary and her liberal ideologies which I respectfully and wholeheartedly disagree with. I’m someone who wants people to like me, and so sticking up for my conservative values among the liberal trends of today is scary for me but I do it. I was once extreme liberal and spent over a year and a half, while kid-free aka had the time, researching issues because I felt I was not well-informed. I looked at everything I could get my hands on right and left (I was a… Read more »
So many of us “lefties” and the left leaning media have attributed his victory to people who don’t think sexism, racism and xenophobia are a deal breaker. That is deeply concerning to me as woman who is married to a Mexican man. What will happen to my husband during this presidential term? What obstacles will he face because the majority of the country thinks he doesn’t deserve to live here, despite him being born here, his mother being born here and Mexico not even being a memory in their lives? I think one thing that is incredibly frustrating for me… Read more »
I voted for neither Trump or HRC, but instead for Evan McMullin. It is the first time in five presidential elections that I haven’t voted for the Republican nominee. I applaud your comment, Erica, because I can see honesty and truth in it, for the conservative and liberal alike (and everyone in-between). Let’s LISTEN to each other, and move forward with respect for each other. We cannot move forward with hate and anger.
Another moderate conservative (voted for Johnson) here chiming in to say brava, Erica! The Obama years have not been rainbows and butterflies for lots of people. The lack of inclusion by the liberals regarding conservative thought is astounding. If liberals truly want to be inclusive (as they claim to be) they must include conservatives without name-calling (I.e., racist, uneducated, deplorable). Many conservatives are sick of not being welcome in discussions about progress. We conservatives are not comfortable sharing our views with liberals for fear of being labeled a bigot so many of us stay quiet. We must all work together… Read more »
Claire, I agree with your point that liberals need to be more inclusive. But the ‘name calling’ issue is another matter. Trump has repeatedly espoused racist rhetoric in a public forum. This is undeniable and should not be minimized. And so by supporting his leadership you are sending a very public message that the racist undertones of his agenda are acceptable to our society. It’s a “guilty by association” predicament, and regardless of the fact that you (or other Trump supporters) are in fact racist in your personal life, there’s an inherent connection you’re communicating by entrusting him to represent… Read more »
Perhaps conservatives are left out of the conversation because they choose so base their belief system on a archaic notion of gods and temples rather than science, facts or truth? I have no interest in arguing right to choose with someone who’s only idea of right and wrong comes from a book written way before humans even knew the world was round. If you need a book to figure out basic right and wrong then you got bigger problems than liberals.
I have been trying to wrap my brain around why someone would willingly vote for Trump. I have never heard of Emily, but a friend posted a link to this post and said I should check out the comments. I have to say with all the respect I can muster, just no. Every explanation is Liberal Vs. Conservative and a “moderate” piping in from time to time. When we start a conversation, and we start with boxing people in to these terms, I shut down. Allowing a platform for privilege to vocalize their pain and hurt via their liberal friends… Read more »
Hi Emily, While I did not vote for Trump, my parents did. I tearfully called my mom this morning and asked her how she came to that decision. My mom explained to me that although she does not like Trump as a person, and she does not condone his sexist/misogynistic/racist/hateful behaviour, she felt strongly that her vote should align with the Republican party, the party that most closely represents her beliefs. My parents are small business owners, and have always believed in small government. The past eight years have made them fed up with politicians, and (in their eyes) a… Read more »
Please do your research and you will find evidence of Bill Clintons multiple cases of misconduct with women including rape from back when he was governor to while he was president and after he left office. You will find evidence of Hilary’s degradation of these women that her husband abused as well as her own misconduct as a lawyer representing a rapist against a 12 year old girl who after she got off on technicalities she laughed about it. Question a lawyer who loses her license which Hillary, bill and both obamas have done. Hillary put our countries security at… Read more »
I recommend you too do your research. One glaring inaccuracy – Only Bill Clinton was disbarred (after the Monica Lewinsky scandal – not something to defend) Hillary and the Obamas let their licenses lapse, which is a choice and very different than “losing” their license.
Mary – can I ask what sources are you using in your Clinton Foundation research? I go out of my way to get my news from as many sources/perspectives as possible, but evidently we are reading very different versions of the story. I am genuinely curious. Thanks.
The New York Times (liberal audience) and
The Drudge Report (syndicated, conservative audience). Aaron, Here is an article that really made me look further into the actions of the Clinton Foundation.
Another major topic to research is ‘Haiti Relief’ after the 2010 earthquake. There are many sources.
Check out the wiki leaks e mails dumped 2 weeks before election and google FBI investigations into Clinton foundation. She set up the server illegally to evade the freedom of information acts that could subpoena her documents. She destroyed them and scrubbed the server (she thought) at best she was incompetent but it is clear to me that she was criminal in her actions.
Neither of the Obama’s ever ‘lost their license to practice law’ – this is a myth propagated by opponents. Check out the truth on http://www.factcheck.org/2012/06/the-obamas-law-licenses/.
Larger issue is that people often believe what they want to believe and are easily misled by false information circulated as truth (happens on both sides).
But, as Maya Angelou said, when somebody, such as our president-elect, himself makes the derisive comments about groups and actions he plans to take, we need to believe him. Many of us are frightened by this thought.
Very true, Mary. Unfortunately, now the mainstream media outlets are owned/controlled by a few. True investigative reporting is discouraged and whistle blowers are no longer protected. It is a lot of work to truly stay informed. You have to access multiple independent media sources to get a good understanding of the truth. It takes much time and is often disheartening.
Mary,
Hilary did not laugh at the 12 year old girl who was raped.
Please read here:
http://www.snopes.com/hillary-clinton-freed-child-rapist-laughed-about-it/
Actually, she did. Listen to the audio for yourself at the bottom of the link http://insider.foxnews.com/2014/06/20/audio-hillary-clinton-laughs-while-discussing-defense-child-rapist. And snopes isn’t the best place to fact check. It’s run by a liberal husband and wife team from their home in San Francisco….neither have fact checking credentials! It’s very liberal leaning and many times inaccurate.
Well said, Mary. I would also like to add Benghazi to the list. And, if you ever saw her testimony, her sheer smugness and not taking responsibility for the 4th deaths was unconscionable. I have been following her since college and she is abhorrent. #1)Quick aside: I am Republican that believes in small government, which do the research on the debt. #2) Obama racked up more debt than all previous Presidents in office in our span of being the USA- that is a problem and look to other countries that have fallen to the crush of debt: Greece and many… Read more »
This is a very condescending way to speak to Lee. It’s disappointing, because all the comments I’ve read up to this point have actually been very civil. Here is an interview about the 12 year old rape victim she supposedly laughed at (she didn’t): http://www.npr.org/2016/11/03/500480069/the-story-behind-a-campaign-line-did-clinton-laugh-at-a-rape-victim
Mae accurately explains below that neither Hillary nor the Obamas have been disbarred.
You have a lot to say about the Clinton Foundation, but at the end of they day, they’ve helped 9 MILLLION people with HIV and AIDs, while Donald Trump will appear in court on charges of fraud in regards to his Foundation.
Actually, I’m not trying to condemn you in any way but the Obamas did not lose their law licenses. When he decided to run for President, they both voluntarily surrendered their licenses for obvious reasons (he was running). HRC also did not lose her license. This is completely false.
Bill Clinton lost his right to practice in AR but was never disbarred.
Just want to ensure you also have your research in check. It happens to be a point very often argumented incorrectly. However, anyone look into it and find that the claims are untrue.
Mary, Emily asked why you voted for Trump. Really, are these the reasons? I suggest you do your research before spreading more untruths. Neither Bill, Hillary, or either of the Obamas were “lost their law licenses.” It costs thousands of dollars per year in fees and continuing legal education to maintain an active license in each state in which you are admitted. Most lawyers who aren’t litigating or advising clients have no reason to do so, and will go inactive. That’s what Hillary, Michele, and president Obama have done. And Bill agreed to a suspension in connection with the Monica… Read more »
Except you got all your information from rightwing sites. I am so tired of this double standard. But Commander in Chief pussy grabber is just fine with you. Double standard. And everyone going on about being persecuted for their conservative beliefs seems to have completely forgotten what is was like to dare be proud of your progressive beliefs under Bush. The vitriol and hate was shocking to me. You were un American if you dared say anything against him or his policies. But now everyone is proud of voting for a racist, sexist, ignorant and hateful demigod, and they still… Read more »
Well put Mary. I was raised conservative but tend to have more liberal views regarding abortion (pro-choice because not everyone’s situation is the same but appalled by late term or partial birth abortions), pro-LGBT rights but I’m also in the military so I am very pro-guns but also am appalled at how easy it is for criminals to get guns so I’m all for gun reform. I’d say I balance out in the middle but everything you just said about Hilary is what made me vote against her. As a working mother that has great maternity leave and daycare through… Read more »
Ok, respectfully, the video about Hilary’s reaction regarding the 12 year old girl was edited and taken out of context- she was not laughing at the girl at all but in response to something else the reporter said. This is another example of how people have twisted the facts to make Hilary seem like a horrible person. And Fox News is the one who twisted that story. Sometimes the news is good but sometimes it’s not 100 percent reliable. Imho. She is a mother- why do people believe that she would act that way? You cant believe wholeheartedly what someone… Read more »
…ugh. this is just off. you start your comment by stating “do your research” but then among your comments you reference hillary laughing about a 12 year old girl getting raped. but if YOU do your research, you’ll hear that’s just completely off. the “laughing” you reference is in an interview where she’s talking about the case and awkwardly chuckling, uncomfortably, at the absurdity of it, and the system that allowed her to get the rapist off. it’s literally the ridiculousness of the system that she’s awkwardly chuckling at. it’s the exact opposite of what you’re claiming. the interviewer has… Read more »
I agree with your parents. The last two elections could hurt them and their small business pretty bad. It really hurt my family.
Aly, Sorry but Fox News is a super conservative biased media source. No Snopes, no Fox News.
I am Canadian and I have to be honest: I am baffled by the US electoral system. And by the latest election results and ESPECIALLY, by the media chaos that preceded the elections. I am thrilled to read the comments in this section because they accumulate to one of the few examples of what a calm, balanced political discussion can resemble nowadays. That being said, as a liberal, I don’t think that I will ever ever ever understand how anyone could vote for a candidate who has made such blatantly (and well-documented) sexist and racist statements, especially against women and… Read more »
A little background information on myself: I am a 45-year-old Mexican-American woman born to immigrant parents. They had seven children and we were very poor. Although I was born in Texas, I didn’t learn to speak English until second grade. My parents came here legally many years ago and worked hard in the fields as farm laborers. My siblings and I worked in the fields during the summers to help provide for the family. I give this background information to qualify my next comment. I don’t know Trump’s heart, whether he is racist or not. Maybe he is. But when… Read more »
VS, I just wanted to take a moment to thank you so much for sharing a perspective that many of us don’t have. I could never put it as eloquently as you have, but I found your post quite encouraging. I voted for neither Trump, nor Clinton, (Johnson) but do consider myself a fiscal conservative (social liberal). I find that people often believe that those of us who don’t necessarily support quite so many social handouts are generally from a well-to-do background and just tight with our money, which, for me at least, is very inaccurate. As someone who grew… Read more »
Thank you for sharing this. I agree there are many good things about the welfare system and helping those in need, and having needed to participate in it for a time in my life has given me an inside perspective. But it is often taken advantage of. Those who identify with liberals have good hearts to want to care for others but there is an unhealthy dependence on government help. It’s purpose is to assist until one can move forward. It isn’t for generations to use continually and that is a major problem. I appreciated your personal viewpoint on this!
Thanks VS for sharing your story, and like others have it’s nice to have first hand experience-we can all say what you have said, but you have walked the walk! Emily, thank you for asking in such a nice way and really taking the time to listen to people who did vote for Trump. We have a family divided, and it has been quite stressful around them, at times has been incredibly uncomfortable. My sister called up my college age daughter yesterday and attacked her for voting for Trump, which really upset her. I think everyone is entitled to their… Read more »
VS, I could NOT agree with you more! I grew up on welfare and watched many of my own family members abuse the system. It became a career for them and now they think the world owes them something. I busted my butt to put myself through college and earn both a BS and a BA in four years. The system is beyond broken and I hope we can find a balance between helping others while also empowering them.
VS, thank you so much for telling your story. I did not vote for Trump (or Clinton), but I respect your reasoning so much. I sometimes feel like politicians and pundits on both sides, in the name of building a base, try to argue that certain kinds of people should think the same way: all African Americans should vote this way, all immigrants or children of immigrants should vote this way, all LGBT people should vote this way, all lower class people should vote this way, all educated people should vote this way. I am a white cisgender woman from… Read more »
Your comment was very compelling, until you used some falsehoods to support your position: the “Obama phone program” was actually passed into law by George W. Bush and enacted under his presidency (when it was known as SafeLink). The phone plans do not include data – just talk/text. Federal/state taxes do not pay for this service; it’s supported by a non-profit organization, although many phone companies do add a “universal tax” to your bill which gets contributed to the program. Also: do you personally know someone who had a baby just to get welfare? Is it possible that someone thought… Read more »
OMG I love this! My husband is half Mexican and half Swedish and both of his parents are from Mexico/Sweden, and came here legally and did things the legal way. I think if he saw this comment, which he won’t because design blogs aren’t his thing, he would agree with everything you just said! His mom was a single mother in southern CA, one of the most expenesive areas in this country, and she worked multiple jobs to pay the bills and NEVER took handouts because she felt she didn’t need them. She worked, so why take free things? If… Read more »
Trump has promised to end the H1B visa and have a system to only hire American workers first, do you agree with this? Would love to have your perspective because a lot of immigrants who live and work here legally , have for years and even have families, use that system . Thank you 🙂
I did not vote for Trump, I felt I’d be going against my heart and beliefs in doing so. However, I did support that my husband voted for him. My husband works as a non-military contractor for the government and it is in his career’s best interest for us to have republican leaders. I don’t want to go into the hows and whys of that or start a debate but I do know that the people that I know did it for similar reasons. I am sad about the outcome for so many reasons but I believe in good people… Read more »
I don’t think electing a narcissistic misogynist president because you want to make more money helped me any. I hope you don’t have a daughter. I do, and I couldn’t elect or sit by passively if my husband wanted to elect someone president who would judge my daughter on a sliding scale as to wether she was a fat pig, or hot enough for a groping, just because I want more money in my own coffers.
Sorry, I actually thought that was respectful, and more importantly an opinion. I could have wished her fig leaf would die. I was expecting to see someone deciding to vote for Trump because they thought it was good for the country, not voting cause they thought they may get a pay hike.
Hi Katy, today is a really hard day for Clinton supporters — it honestly feels like a death in the family. We have to remember that everyone believe they are the good guy and remind ourselves that most people are doing the best they can. I don’t think members of the military (or contractors, etc.) were voting for a Republican out of greed, but because they believe that their jobs will be safe and they’ll be able to protect their families. We all vote based on what we think will be best for us. It’s hard to look at the… Read more »
Thanks Ashley, I had actually gotten to a better place, but that took me back. For me Hillary wasn’t the other candidate, she was my dream candidate for 20 years. It makes me so sad to think this place in history won’t be hers. More importantly it makes me ashamed to think of the Obamas handing over the office to the Trumps, it is a slap in the face. In other words, it is too soon for me to engage. I need to chant some more mantras or something. Again, thanks for kindly bringing me a bit back!
Thank you Ashley for your open mind, that is very true for the people I know here in the Midwest. I am a democrat that has a background in environmental conservation and education in third world countries, married to a republican working for the department of defense. Understanding perspective keeps me sane.
I actually don’t think that we should just be voting for what is best for ‘me’, ‘my family’ and ‘people like me.’ We should be voting for what is best for the most people and the country as a whole and long term health as growth. This me me me culture put minorities in danger, and people’s possessions and ‘right’ to carry weapons that kill are NEVER more important than someone’s life. It is also really upsetting to someone who is not American to realize how much the American people have been uneducated about their own system. The poorest people… Read more »
A pay hike? No, he just wants to keep his job. And as someone working to defend our country he does believe that what he voted was what’s best for our country because he is not the only one who does this kind of work. Trust me I get why you are upset but please don’t be presumptious or cruel. It wasn’t easy for me to accept that this was his decision, but it was his to make and I respect it and try to have an open mind. Also, I do have a daughter who is loved dearly. I… Read more »
Lisa, thank you for your thoughtful, articulate perspective. As a Canadian, I – along with everyone I know up here – am reeling, and having a hard time understanding how so many Americans could vote for what’s amounted to a moral dumpster fire. It’s so refreshing to have a reminder that for many the vote wasn’t for Trump – was actually in spite of Trump – but in the service of the Republican values that do align with their beliefs.
Just because we didn’t create racism and sexism does not mean we should support it. We need to be better. I’m so so disheartened by this, ‘well that’s how lots of people talk or feel’. If that’s true we should be doing everything we can to change that, NOT supporting it or sitting there doing nothing.
As a military officer, who has been in combat several times, I am truly scared for what position he will be putting our military in. We do not need to enter into any more conflicts and I feel his brash personality/temperament will definitely lead to more conflicts. I’m also extremely nervous about his relationship with Russia. As a woman who has worked 8 times as hard as the men to get to the position I am in (one of only 4 women ever have the job I’m in) I am truly saddened and completely disheartened for all women, but mostly… Read more »
I’m sorry, but my husband is a Marine. What you’re invoking is that Republicans are more interested in wars and spending money on the military industrial complex than Democrats. Your husband makes his living off that dynamic. So does mine. He also joined the military to defend our freedom, and I’m sure that your husband has similar motivations. However, your argument is that your husband voted for Trump because Trump will provide him with a job and with a paycheck. I know many members of the military voted for Trump for ideological reasons and because they are ‘hawks’, in that… Read more »
Lisa, have younor your husband read the information Trump had released for his first hundred days in office? It includes an immediate hiring freeze on all federal employees. It is quite possible that agencies will drop contractors in an effort to save the civvies.
Katy I’m in the same boat. Unlike most college students I know, I supported Hillary from the beginning and truly respected and admired her for so many reasons. I looked forward to having a female president and I wanted it to be her, but I don’t think I realized how important it was to me. I’m absolutely devastated and having such a hard time understanding the other side at this point.
Katy, I’m in the same boat. Unlike most college students I know, I supported Hillary from the beginning and truly respected and admired her for so many reasons. I looked forward to having a female president and I wanted it to be her, but I don’t think I realized how important it was to me. I’m absolutely devastated and having such a hard time understanding the other side at this point.
“I am sad about the outcome for so many reasons but I believe in good people and pray that the people backing Trump can make up for what he lacks.”
I’ll be carrying that with me, Lisa. Thanks for your thoughtful words. Stay strong. Respect to your husband as well.
I don’t believe she said that her husband voted for Trump because it might get him a pay hike. She said he works as a non-military contractor for the government. I don’t know exactly what his reasons are for thinking that Replublican leadership is beneficial to his career, but it could simply mean that it presents him and his organization with more opportunities to advance the initiatives on which they’re working. Just a thought.
I would NEVER condone voting for Trump and I’m devastated today, but it may not be just about a pay hike for that family. In some areas where government contractors are major employers, that woman’s husband could very likely totally lose his job if defense spending is scaled back. Yes, those people could find new jobs but the fear of being laid-off from an otherwise great job is very scary for most people. Most Americans don’t have 6 months worth of savings to fall back on.
So, I have often struggled with the whole “small government is better” Republican line. Every time governments (city, state, or Federal) have to cut jobs or pay, that’s someone’s neighbor who is losing a job or salary. Not just people employed in defense related work.
It’s actually truly horrendous to wish someone’s fiddle leaf fig dies. Mine died recently after desperate attempts to try to save it. I wouldn’t wish that on my worst enemy…
LOL, literally laughed out loud at work. Thanks!
thank you for that, nicole. 🙂
and thank you, emily. you are to be commended for opening this fascinating dialogue.
xx
Uh-huh. Meanwhile, people who voted FOR her (and Obama for the last 8) because they wanted free healthcare and free college and free ALL THE THINGS aren’t selfish, right? And someone who started a charity to sell her access to the State Department to line her personal pockets, that’s not selfish, right? It’s not selfish to take 30-40-50% of someone’s paycheck, but how DARE that guy want to keep what he has actually earned, right? It’s not selfish to want to better your life, to take care of your family. It’s natural. The defense cuts have been devastating to people… Read more »
Yes!!!! All of this and more!!’ I couldn’t be more happy and woke breathing a sigh of relief. I’m so glad I no longer have to worry about being like Germany and building a wall inside my city to keep my family safe from refugees or fear becoming a socialist country like poor Venezuela and have a black market for toilet paper. Yes, those things are real and are happening and I truly felt we were headed that way.
Deb, I take serious issue with your first paragraph. I voted for Obama twice not because I personally benefitted from free healthcare and free college, but because I believe that universal healthcare is a benefit we should all receive, regardless of income. Without it, lower-income children will never get a chance to make something of their lives, and they don’t choose to be born poor.
You are so on point. Illegal aliens are not a race so calling someone racist because they want to uphold the LAWS of our country is ridiculous. What is racist is blaming whites for anything but as soon as a white person points a finger we are deemed racist!! Please, everyone and anyone who voted for Clinton do just a bit of investigating on your own and find out the horrible and illegal things she and her husband have done. No one at all is perfect, we alll have done or said something regrettable but to do what the Clintons… Read more »
I understand what Deb is saying and I’m glad she posted all of this for our consideration. However, I hope she understands that a lot of what she said is just wrong. For example, health care. Donald Trump will not help health care costs lower unless he is going to propose a single-payer system. That is the only thing that will help lower costs and keep it accessible. Health care was impossible before Obamacare (impossible to get because they could turn people away) and it will be impossible if they repeal it. Also, we have no idea what Donald’s policy… Read more »
Hi Deb. Just to let you know you are more likely to die from a gun (non terrorism relat e)than from a terrorist attack. In the last ten years a little over 300 Americans died from terrorism and over 300,000 died from guns. It’s easily found online. And refugees support and grow the economy. If you look up and find the real facts (not o. Fox News) you will see that. All the best to you.
Deb, It seems you missed the section of the post where we asked to be RESPECTFUL. Asserting that all liberals are judgmental, selfish and bigoted is absurd and offensive. I voted for President Obama and Secretary Clinton because I want to live in a country that respects the rights and beliefs of ALL people, not just people that look and think like me. It’s impossible to find a perfect candidate, so I have to utilize a weighted grading system – respect, diplomacy and inclusiveness rate extremely high on my scale. If you’re interested to learn about the other side, I… Read more »
Absolutely on point! I couldn’t agree more with each of your reasons. The fact that you are all so devastated is understandable, because you Hillary/Obama supporters probably do live in relatively isolated bubbles. You obviously concluded that most people think as you do and feel as you do, so this jolt back to reality has been really difficult for you to fathom…”how could everyone not believe what you believe is reality in the U.S.” I have to ask, honestly, what was Hillary going to do for you? Just as you Hillary support people feel right now in your inability to… Read more »
I voted for Obama twice, and voted for Hillary yesterday. I am an independent contractor and am very fortunate to have the means to pay for my own health insurance. Until obamacare, I was NOT able to obtain an independent policy because I have a pre-existing condition. This is a huge concern for me whenever I hear pols glibly saying they want to repeal ACA. by the way, most people have to pay a portion of their premium (like those who get insurance through a job with benefits). It is not a free handout!
I don’t know anyone who’s lost a job in the past 8 years. In fact, my experience has been quite the opposite. I’m originally from Michigan. My parents still live there, and almost all of my male family members are laborers (and largely Italian immigrants): construction, cement, tile workers. My dad was laid off when I was in high school/college, from 2002 to 2010, more often than he was working. But after Obama started to fix Bush’s mess, he started working again, and he is now nearing the end of his best working year of his life–for the third year… Read more »
I wouldn’t dream of defending trumps words but the one criticism I find ridiculous is equating his “grab em by the pu&&y” to condoning sexual assault! I think of it as more in line with the saying “grab em by the balls”. Meaning women who are attracted to money and power throw themselves at him all the time or look for favors or help with their start-up business and he is bragging about that.
KT Trump actually rolled out a very specific 7 point plan on how he would fix healthcare while repealing Obama care. It was actually very detailed and made perfect sense… It wasn’t millions of pages long requiring it to be passed before it was read. It is actually pretty darn amazing. If you are interested in learning about it here is the link https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/healthcare-reform He also will be bringing Ben Carson to the table to help with healthcare reform… An Actusl Brain surgeon… Not a paid politician with alternative motives and no medical back ground. I voted for Trump because… Read more »
Your comments are quite hateful, and honestly strongly evocative of why people voted against HRC (and, ergo, for DJT). It’s not about more more dollars in already full pockets, it’s about dinner on the table. It’s about, despite the ACA, being unable to afford insurance premiums with deductibles that are higher than a used car. Trump supporters are easily dismissed as ignorant, uneducated, sexist, racists white people. The truth is – yes, they are probably uneducated and white, and SOME are sexist, ignorant and/or racist. BUT these are people whose plights are being ignored in the name of ‘progress.’ What… Read more »
If you are hurting today try to console others instead of spreading hurt. Please consider how hurtful it is to hear others virulently disrespect your views. It’s one thing to say “i think___” or “I made this decision because____” and it is an entirely other thing to say “How dare you do ____” or “You are wrong”.
This country is free because individuals can make decisions for themselves. Freedom is always encroached when some try to make decisions for others.
“They refuse to remain forgotten, and they showed it with their vote.” This is pretty well said, BettyB! As someone who did not vote for Trump, I personally have a hard time understanding people who can’t understand why anyone would vote for him, especially when Clinton was the other option. As Bernie Sanders so eloquently explained, bigotry must not be tolerated. But to dismiss, ignore, or demean entire groups of people because they are white, uneducated, working class, Midwestern, or Southern is just as bigoted as dismissing, ignoring, or demeaning entire groups of people because they are, say, poor or… Read more »
But you could elect a woman who sat by her lying, cheating husband while she called women trailer-trash, narcissistic loony tune, bimbos?
And speaking of money in coffers, what about the Clinton Foundation and foreign donations?
Both of these candidates are imperfect human beings.
Right, and that’s why we had to vote based on issues and not candidates. I resent the assault on my character based on my vote. I care about all human life and the future of my children. Just because we are for immigration reform does not mean we don’t want immigrants in our country or our kids to grow up in a rich, diverse country. I, for one, am living in an area where the drugs are pouring in and based on what police have told us is coming directly from Mexico and Columbia. We are small business owners and… Read more »
It’s not about the money. I too have a Military husband and it’s more about policy. Please, we do not make a lot of money- we do it to serve our country and we need to be able to stand behind our leadership and trust them with classified information, our foreign affairs, our military, etc.
You couldn’t vote for Trump because of words, but you could put Bill, the abuser, and Hillary the destroyer of his victims, back in the white house. My oh my! I’m a teacher, and his actions with Monica, caused junior high kids to think that oral sex was just fine. #1, I would never vote for a member of the Clinton crime family, and her proposed increase in taxes would destroy the economy that Obama has not improved. He was the first president to never get to 4% growth. Very few full time jobs were created in the 8 years,… Read more »
Trump’s rhetoric encourages hate crimes and sexual assaults, but you’re worried about teenagers thinking oral sex is okay? Flabbergasted by your priories, here.
I wouldn’t dream of defending trumps words but I think the criticism over the “grab em by the pu&&y” comment is ridiculous. I think of it in terms of the “grab em by the balls” saying. We wouldn’t consider that encouraging sexual assault. I am pretty sure there are many women who are attracted to money and power who throw themselves at trump and this “grab em by the pu&&y” remark is a way of bragging about that. Meaning he has lots of opportunities with women.
Oral sex *is* just fine. Your comment makes it sound evil and like something to avoid and not be taught in health class. *That* mindset is a massive problem. Presumably, though, you’re referring specifically to the fact that it was both adulterous and ‘on the job’ when Bill and Monica were gettin’ after it. Those two things are a problem, not the fact that two consenting adults engaged in *gasp* oral sex. Even the fact of *where* they chose to partake in the activity is not necessarily a problem. Ideal? Good judgment? Sanitary? Probably not. But if you think all… Read more »
But you could elect a woman who “stood by” as her husband had an affair in the White House? First of all what comes out of his mouth is a far cry from his actions. He is a public figure yet we have not photo or video proof he has ever actually done any of the stupid BS he has mouthed about. I am not willing to judge him on words alone. Hillary LIED to the American people over and over! And it is on tape! I do hope he can deliver on his promises… I am not a bigot… Read more »
I did not vote for Trump, but for Hillary Clinton as did anyone in my small Department of Defense Contractor company except for one person who would never vote for a Democratic because of taxes and is very open about it as her husband is a lawyer and she is a CPA. (This morning has been one of the most somber I have every seen except when we entered work after the much more tragic loss of life do to the space accidents.) I have worked here for 16 years and 85% of our business comes through the government. During… Read more »
Victoria- I don’t presume to know everything about how politics affect government jobs, professionally my husband and I are from two different worlds. I’m sure there are very different circumstances and types of contractor positions. He works at an Air Force Base in cyber security and is currently at then end of a 10 year contract with his company and going to another company with a $20,000 pay cut and his office is very understaffed- people went to the private sector for job security. We know a lot of people that do similar jobs but work under different goverenment contract… Read more »
Thanks for this. My mother works for a federal department, and they have contract workers, too. But they were cut under Bush, and have risen under Obama. She has been given a lot more leeway in her job to pursue innovation under Obama than she did under Bush. She is close to retirement and will probably leave when Trump comes into power (I still can’t believe I’m typing that). I wish the original poster had explained a bit more why her husband believed his job security would improve under Trump, and not under Clinton. That seems to go against what… Read more »
Republicans have historically been more in favor for military spending, increased military spending was part of Trump’s agenda. This in the long run means more work at the military base a lot of people in my city work at. The exception to this would be in times of recession or in an effort to bring down taxes.
I think people like Lisa may actually have BOOSTED the Trump vote! A lot of voters had low opinions of both candidates and one side was repeatedly shamed, being told they were sexist, racist, and stupid. People are sick of being told what is the right way to feel. I’m a Trump hater living deep inside a liberal bubble, though within the circle of trust I know secret Clinton haters. That’s right, seemed like there were a lot of those, judging by how off the exit polls were. They remain quiet because upon trying to voice an opinion, they are… Read more »
Shoot, I meant Katy, one of the first responders to this particular thread.
Interesting thread, given that Hillary Clinton has always been a total hawk! I voted for Jill Stein in a heavily blue state, but I have spent many years in Republican strongholds, so I get it. Funny, though, that Trump voters wanted “change,” and he’s giving them Gingrich, Christie & Giuliani. Defund education for decades, and this is what you get. His supporters aren’t evil; they’re vulnerable, and he scooped them up. God help us all!
I agree – I’m seeing so many people who are angry about the election and are calling everyone who voted trump “ignorant idiots” “uneducated f–ks” and worse….. and this is supposedly from people who are against “hate” and “intolerance” and supposedly support all human rights and freedoms???? And they are acting and talking with the least tolerance and love that I’ve ever seen? I’m a New Zealand watching this from the other side of the world but trust me, it’s all our media has been talking about for months (and yep, our media strongly supported Hilary and defamed Trump in… Read more »
Amy M, you nailed it. It’s sad to me how blinded people are by hatred and fear that they fail to see their own hypocrisy, as you just articulated so clearly. I did not vote for Trump. Neither did I vote for Hillary. Both are despicable to me and I had to make a decision I could live with, and one in which I could look my 13-year-old daughter in the eye and discuss. However- I believe that the media spin has made both into bigger monsters than we would believe about them, if we could just get/look at the… Read more »
That’s exactly how it is! Those of us who voted for Trump had to do it silently, because God forbid we rile up the Liberals. I’m half Spanish, and the media has bashed Trump and glorified Clinton everywhere in Europe which is giving everyone a skewed view of reality. There’s a reason why so many Americans voted for Trump in the silent vote; it’s tiring to hear all of the hatred from those that are spewing more hatred than anyone else. The hypocrisy is unreal. I’m very glad you’re realizing this all the way from New Zealand, the media has… Read more »
Ann M., At his rallies, Trump put members of the press in a pen and encouraged his supporters to yell insults at them. He mocked a disabled person. He brags about groping women. He threatens to put his opponents in prison. In sum, he is profoundly anti-social and anti-democratic in ways that none of the other candidates (of any party) were. Trump supporters waved Confederate flags at his rallies. His campaign used anti-semitic materials produced by neo-Nazis. They beat people up, especially people of color. This was encouraged by the candidate himself. The idea that we have to be tolerant… Read more »
Respectfully, you have no idea what you are talking about. If Hillary won, black people in the south would be even more persecuted, perhaps shot, there would be literal militia uprising. My black friends in North Carolina woke up to swastika graffiti on buildings and confederate flags (basically, as bad as a swastika) on trucks because of the joyous celebrations. Hillary supporters are reacting to a campaign that was full of misogamy, hate, bigotry, and bullying. I feel the right to call a Trump supporter an uneducated fuck because I have yet to meet one who can explain to me… Read more »
Mae, I think you are onto something. I wouldn’t paint all liberals with this brush like some do, but I have a very intelligent and articulate coworker who nonetheless *cannot* tolerate disagreement. I once witnessed someone ask her a question about the refugee crisis, and she was so outraged that anyone would even have a question rather than already hold the same opinion about it that she did that she called him an idiot and refused to engage with him. How shortsighted of her to resort to name-calling as opposed to taking the time to answer the question, explain her… Read more »
My husband is retired from the military and he notes just the opposite re: a R President over a D President. Also good to remember that the R majority in our government stopped them from working and getting paid during the sequestration.
I woke up so angry and then i decided to live by Michelle Obama’s words, “when they go low, we go high”. I actually congratulated people I knew who supported him. It made me feel good, actually I am not ashamed to admit, it made me feel superior. It is also a huge wake up call for liberal democrats, we can no longer be idle, we need to organize, volunteer, and contribute. On a side note, had he lost they would have claimed it was rigged, and worse yet made him a martyr like figure. He had no excuses to… Read more »
How does this attitude help anyone? Why not try to help him succeed? After all whether you like it or not he is OUR president and his success is OUR nations success. As a side note, I did not vote for Trump, I simply do not understand this desire to watch our country crash and burn.
I don’t desire it, but I predict it, that is why I voted for Hillary. Where did I say it was my hearts desire? What power do I have one way or the other?
I’m with you on this. A full Republican slate – house, senate and presidency. This will be a real experiment in truly enacting a Republican vision. It has taken the country 8 years to get to where we are, with the level of economic recovery that we have. We’ll see what the proposed tax cuts, and proposed spending decisions and proposed elimination of Obamacare really do to those that voted for him. My prediction is it won’t end well (exhibit A, the Bush recession).
This is my main concern too – that the country will see what Republic policies really do for the American people, and I don’t think it will be good. I think this is why the country was so ready for Obama when he became elected, because people were realizing that the Republican agenda isn’t good for the country. Just feels like a huge bummer that we all forget so soon, and vote back in the Republican platform instead of continuing to make actual progress under a Democratic platform.
With all my heart I’m sending you love.
I’m far away from you all. I’m from Chile.
And very respectfully I’d like to say that you have a GREAT BEAUTIFUL nation and will never fall no matter what.
It’s so nice Emily that you have this desire to understand what is happening with an open mind and to share it here.
I have read a lot of great comments… Filled with passion and respect which is probably the combination that have made America what it is…
Mitch McConnell, senator from my home state of Kentucky, said after the inauguration of President Obama, “I hope he fails.” He and his cronies did all they could to obstruct progress. Just think how much we could have accomplished if they had worked together. He set the precedent for wishing failure on an elected official of the opposing party.
I’m not a Trump supporter. But why would we want to see him fail? Or the whole house or congress to fail? Don’t we all want the best for the country, regardless regardless who won? Should we all support with kindness and love, whoever won, even if it’s Trump? Should we all be united, more than ever?
Do you really want him to fail? When our country is already struggling? So four years from now, you can continue to be cynical and say, “I told you so!” You are letting you’re anger, pride and resentment get in the way of what could be true open mindedness. He has a gigantic job ahead of him! What if he succeeds?! What if we have a million small victories as a country because of forward motion? Because of change? He wasn’t my pick either. But I have faith in the people he has surrounded himself with and faith that he… Read more »
I think you touched on an important insight – the notion that our nation is struggling. I believe that due to who we are as individuals, our answers are different. Some supporters of Hillary saw a 4.5% unemployment rate and the fact that everyone has access to healthcare (affordable or not) as a sign we are doing well. Some supporters of Donald Trump may have been displaced when factory work went overseas, and see that as a sign that we’re not growing here first. I am praying that we can come up with a semblance of goals that please both… Read more »
“sit back and watch him fail?” That is not the solution. If he fails, our country fails. I did not vote for him, but let’s dig deep down and find ways to support him.
Should I help him take away my reproductive rights, or help him make it so my sister can’t marry her girlfriend? Let me know. What I will do is help him by actually paying taxes (pun intended), raising my daughter to be a decent human being who would never make fun of a handicap person or vote for someone that does, and by investing in my 401K (aka the Stock Market). Again, do I “want” my country to fail? No way and no how, but I believe it will. That is why I voted for Hillary, cause I believed she… Read more »
Well, it’s not that we would like to see the country fail. But that’s the logic result of electing a notorious liar (just fact check people), a sexist, a racist, a person who has never in his life done something to benefit anything else them himself. He is a dangerous man, the whole world is watching and think this is a joke! But his voters don’t care that he is a danger for world-peace. Getting out of NATO, really?? My daughter was crying last night and asked if we are getting World War 3 now. Look in the history books!… Read more »
‘Sitting back and watching him fail’ means NOT supporting his policies that are literally going to ruin the country and the environment. Noone wants to watch the country fail but supporting actions that are harmful and supreme court justices that restrict the freedoms we should all have IS helping our nation succeed.
I agree that it means not supporting his policies. Independent analysts have already been very clear that the fiscal policies proposed by Trump would increase the national debt. Today, The Economist (a right-leaning publication) reported that a Trump presidency will increase inflation and government spending without the capability to increase economic growth. In addition, they reported that his potential rejection of climate change could have devastating effects on the economy in the long-term.
That is why I hope he is unsuccessful as a president.
Yes, I expect, or hope, that is what people mean when they say they want a president to fail– they want the agendas/policies to not pass, because they believe them to be detrimental.
On the flip side, I don’t understand when people say they want an opponent to succeed…at what? The agendas which they believe to be detrimental? Do they just immediately change their minds about what will and won’t be good for the country?
I did not, but I know many who did. I have boiled their reasons down to
1) “I vote only GOP”
2) “Women cannot lead”
3a) “I hate the Clintons, they are a bunch of career politican scumbags who only care about their own personal gain
3b) “The US Government has let me down repeatedly over the last $X years, this is a chance to get somebody fresh in.
3a and 3b are both “anti-establishment” but for very different reasons I think need to be separated out.
Thanks for this…I never understood the “career politician” argument. If you’re going to build a house, you’re going to hire a Professional Architect, right? You aren’t going to hire a store clerk on the corner to engineer your most prized possession, correct? Using the same analogy, don’t we want someone that has been involved in politics and understands all the in’s and out’s in addition to where Aleppo is?
This is sort of a double-edged sword. With career politicians we have few or none who understand science and technology which are two of the big driving forces today. It also means that politicians are beholden to the party and that makes it more difficult to compromise or at least reach across the aisle.
i do not believe that more than a handful of people think that women cannot lead. i have certainly never known one and as an actively engaged citizen I can tell you that i have not heard one trump supporter or GOP voter say this. ONLY the media wants you to think that there are large percentages of people out there voting against women because they are women (instead of voting against them because they disagree with their views).
Kimberly, I wish I could say the same, but I do know plenty of people who think a woman couldn’t lead. I definitely think this storyline was amplified during the election (what wasn’t?!), but there were undercurrents of anti-woman-in-charge rhetoric in a lot of what Trump and his supporters had to say. Even small-ish things like calling Secretary Clinton a “bitch” or a “nasty woman” — it might not always have been intentionally sexist, but it’s an unconscious bias that exists and that certainly played a part in this election. As one tiny anecdote, just yesterday a woman told my… Read more »
I did not vote for trump, but my father in law did. He was mostly 3a, with a little 3b. He’s a struggling small business owner and thinks the current system is not set up to allow him to succeed.
He is, however, an Obamacare supporter. But even though he relies on it literally to save his life, he felt more strongly that Hillary is dishonest and withhold abuse the office for her own gain.
I did not and could not vote for this man however, my father in law did. My understanding is that he really resonated with #1 that Stacey listed above – he could not vote outside party lines and his goals for the country line up in terms of economic policies rather than social policies. All of Trump’s incompatibilities were written off as unimportant social ‘banter’ and character flaws. He never said this but, I think a lack of understanding and research into Trump’s full line of social stances (and history in business) played a large part. I also believe his… Read more »
It’s not as if the people he’s using to staff is cabinet are in any way anti-establishment. Also, I defy someone to coherently explain to me how an old white man who inherited a significant amount of his wealth and who has been able to take advantage of tax loopholes and bankruptcies for years could possibly be characterized as “anti-establishment”.
Okay, he has been in the private sector for a lifetime, not making a living off taxpayers, as career politicians do. If he has taken advantages of tax laws on the books to keep more of his own money, more power to him. An “old white man”….. as opposed to an also older white woman who assumed it was her turn since she didn’t make the cut earlier? Not to mention the cloud of controversies the Clinton family brings along on a regular basis. Also, isn’t Ben Carson, successful surgeon, anti-establishment? I am a woman who supported Trump, as Hillary… Read more »
Jill, it is neither coherent nor helpful. 1) This is not a comparison. He’s been in the private sector of a lifetime. That doesn’t mean he’s anti-establishment. He has made his fortune by hobnobbing with the political elite, including the Clintons whom you seem to revile. This makes him both party of the establishment and the political machine. 2) Yes, and old white man. Not a comparison. I didn’t say that Hillary wasn’t establishment; I was challenging the statement Trump is somehow anti-establishment. 3) Controversies and other commentary re: Clinton? No question. But still irrelevant to Trump being anti-establishment. He… Read more »
I think you summed it up nicely.
I believe that many are frustrated with the way government works today.
I saw an exit poll from voters saying that the majority of their congressmen don’t know what’s in the people’s best interest. And, another exit poll from congressmen/ people in Washington saying that they know what’s best for the country. The two sides aren’t necessarily copacetic.
I live in the south and I think you nailed this, particularly A and 3A. I voted for Hillary but always worried about her as a candidate because the Hillary hate runs SO deep. I’ve never seen anything like it. I know Obama voters that voted third-party or stayed home. We fooled ourselves thinking that the fear of Trump would be enough to make people turn out and hold their noses to vote for Hillary, but clearly that wasn’t the case. FWIW, I work in tech and live in a college city that’s pretty liberal for the south (HRC won… Read more »
Lucy: I don’t think the fact that Clinton is a woman is the reason she lost, but I do think it probably affected her overall likability, and thus in some way the hatred for her. I think there’s some truth to the idea that people tolerate and even respect certain things in male leaders that read as unlikable in female leaders. So it probably is a factor overall, at least in terms of sowing the seeds of doubt. I think she lost, though, because of the reason you hint at. I agree, the DNC believed that fear of Trump would… Read more »
I did not vote for Trump, but my parents did. They live in a small, conservative state and there was no doubt that their state would go Trump. They wrestled with this decision for months. However, they are both very involved in the political scene and they deeply believe, and have researched enough and spoken with political insiders at the state & federal level to find evidence, that the Clinton’s are criminals. That was their reason.
I never really understood the ‘the Clintons are criminals’ argument as a reason to vote for Trump. Because Trump is too, and worse. (Sexual assault, not paying taxes, money laundering etc).
He legally didn’t pay taxes. There are loopholes that plenty of large companies use. He didn’t commit fraud.
Do you know what evidence they found? I really want to understand. My husband voted for Trump and for the sake of our marriage, I want to see it from both sides. What did the Clintons do? The emails, the foundation, something else? And how does that compare with what Trump has done? His sexual assaults, his refusal to pay vendors, his university…
This is something I found on my Facebook feed today: “Hillary Clinton is a classic TV/Movie villain. And for those of you crying that her criminality was “never proved” – yes, because she’s THAT kind of criminal. The kind that slips away from every charge and indictment, gets away with murder and corruption because she has THAT kind of friends, until HOPEFULLY the season finale. If that sounds familiar, it’s because she’s literally the living embodiment of the character in shows that cause you people cheer when they finally get caught and cry when let off the hook yet again… Read more »
I am also incredibly curious where this “criminal clintons” came from?? I honestly want to know. The foundation? The emails? Help me understand this. Yes they are a political couple but I am trying to see the “criminal” as it seems this was the main reason Clinton did not win. Give me proof/evidence so I can understand.
Here are just a few things they did: 1. In 1978 Hillary had massive personal profits from trading cattle futures (with the help of Tyson foods the largest employer in AK and huge donor to Bill) and in return Bill gave Tyson foods millions of dollars of state funded loans, company executives on AK state boards, favorable environmental rulings, and basically sold AK legislature. 2. Whitewater. She obstructed the billing records from her time as a partner in the Rose Law firm during the Watergate scandal to keep herself out of jail. 3. Before Bill left office, he made several… Read more »
Hi Azrn! I had to correct this, AK is Alaska and AR is Arkansas. I grew up there, and people often get that wrong. Also, many people in Arkansas don’t like the Clintons, especially Hillary. She never fit the “mold” of a governors wife. The PBS doc “The Choice” touched on this.
this is super helpful. Whether its been proven or not, it helps me understand what people are suspicious of.
Thank you for your insight. Furthermore, If the Clinton foundation was really a charity, why are there still tent cities in Haiti? My dauaghter, who does short term missions guiding Haitian teachers in curriculum development, has seen no benefit from the Clintons. It’s rumored that the Clintons own Haiti, keeping them in poverty to control them.
This cannot be a real question. Are you seriously wondering if a failed university is a bigger issue than letting an ambassador die? Or having a private unsecured email server for the express and illegal purpose of avoiding FOIA requests? Or having your maid print out classified information? Or Anthony Weiner (that perv) storing hundreds of thousands of emails on his laptop, right by all the kiddie porn, no doubt? Only ever working for the government, but somehow amassing tens of millions of dollars in a few short years? Pay to Play? Any of this ring a bell?
Deb, Again, none of what you have posted is based in fact. What are your sources for all of these assertions? Can link to one credible article with research or proof to back these claims up?
The evidence was in her emails. She had her house maid print off classified information about foreign affairs. And her aides all admitted the Clinton Foundation was involved in pay to play schemes. They predicted it would be a problem. And finally, all of her criminal activities were committed while she worked for us in her role as a public servant. I agree Trump should be investigated for any alleged fraudulent activity, but those occurred as a private citizen…not while taxpayers were paying his salary.
Well, Nicole, I distinctly recall 4 dead Americans in Benghazi…. Or maybe that was all my imagination? Or maybe I imagined the part where the FBI director said pretty much everything she told congress regarding the emails was a lie? What did I say that was false? The government has put people in PRISON for far less significant security breaches. She BROKE THE LAW REPEATEDLY WHILE IN OFFICE.
I literally cannot make it clearer.
I have heard so many times that the Clintons are criminals, but not a real answer for exactly what crimes they have committed. If it is not e-mails or Benghazi, then what is it? I am genuinely trying to understand, because on the other side of the coin I see Trump being charged with child rape, many cases related to his businesses, ties to Russia, etc, and it is hard for me to imagine what the Clintons could have done that would be worse.
If you’re under 50 you may not remember any of this. This is what was happening in the 90’s. If it had been one or two things and none of the current controversies,pay to play, emails, Benghazi etc then that would be one thing. But put it all together and no I could not vote for her. So my vote for trump was a vote against Hillary. When Bill Clinton was president, he allowed Hillary to assume authority over a health care reform. Even after threats and intimidation, she couldn’t even get a vote in a democratic controlled congress. This… Read more »
I remember many of those instances and I’m 37. I also grew up in Memphis in the 90’s when several local attorneys were part of the ongoing investigations into the Clinton business dealings. One of those attorneys mysteriously died while in D.C. to present to Congress 300+ pages of evidence into their criminal wrongdoings. There are more than 30 “mysterious” deaths of professionals associated with the Clintons. That’s not a conspiracy theory. It’s fact.
The Clintons are in their 70s. They have been in public life for nearly 50 years. They probably have 1000s upon 1000s of professionals “associated” with them in some way, many of whom are also older. Is 30 people dying (out of 1000s over 50 years) statistically significant? No one, because even defining “associated” is impossible. Everyone is pretty much “associated” with everybody else if you trace relationships to a certain degree.
This kind of argument is why those who don’t hate the Clintons think the Trumpist conspiracy theorists aren’t the country’s best minds.
Interesting. thanks for taking the time to write it down. Many of those do seem insignificant, but all together (if its true) it is compelling. I think I will grab those books that people are suggesting.
Emily – before you pick up any/all of the Clinton related books some commenters have mentioned, please read this review of a handful of them: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/book-party/wp/2016/10/07/these-books-will-help-you-hate-hillary-clinton-but-only-if-you-already-do/
I think it’s important to recognize that these authors aim to: a) sell books, b) drive traffic for websites that quote or discuss them, and c) discredit Clinton. Also, I know some people think that the Washington Post is just part of the liberal media and will dismiss the criticisms in these books, but we need to think critically of information we consume from either side of the political spectrum.
I voted for Hillary- I don’t know who my parents ultimately voted for, but I know that neither of them would EVER vote for her. Both of my parents are retired from the federal government and worked in National Security. For them, her actions regarding the emails are criminal. They believe that if either of them did what she did, they would be in jail, no questions asked. Maybe they are right, I certainly don’t know. I have a lot of other family members who also worked in national security and feel the same way. I agree that she grossly… Read more »
Will Trump pose a larger threat to women now that he is president than as a private citizen?
Will Clinton pose less of a threat to national security as a private citizen?
When good character or a clean criminal record are not in our options, we can vote based on risk and scope of risk.
Gee, thats strange about treatment of women, since Kelly Anne Conway was the first woman to run a successful campaign for president. And the rape charges were dropped because the woman admitted she made it up, probably paid by Hillary like some of his other accusers were. I also voted for Trump because of her comments about the irredeemable deplorables. She is so elitist.
Thank you Emily. It is so much better to move forward and try to be a bigger person. Resentment won’t get us anywhere. I didn’t vote for Trump but I know people that did. Apparently I know more people that voted for Trump than I realized. I think Stacy nailed it with her explanation of the various reasons.
I came to the blog this morning because I too am super super depressed and anxious about this election result, and I wanted to escape into some juicy decorating and lifestyle blogginess. I was initially disappointed, but then realized it made me feel a tiny bit better knowing that you, Emily, seem to feel exactly the way I do. I too am frightened for the future of our climate, our freedoms, and our democracy, but am trying to follow Hilary’s admonishment in her consetion speech to have an open mind and allow Mr Trump to govern. I agree that he… Read more »
I stood at the voting booth still unsure of what to do. I begrudgingly voted Trump because although I don’t support HIM so much, I do support the policies he is behind and the people he has surrounded himself with. I am socially liberal and fiscally conservative, and being a middle class American with a health insurance payment that’s more than my mortgage I couldn’t support Hillary in continued efforts to socialize medicine. Also her stance on abortions was pretty important to me. Thanks for being open to learn why some people think differently than you. I like surrounding myself… Read more »
I too think of myself as socially liberal and fiscally conservative, and am really trying here to understand, how can you be pro-life and socially liberal?
“. . . how can you be pro-life and socially liberal?”
Check out the New Pro-Life movement. There are plenty of people who find the pro-birth agenda hypocritical in the face of no support for healthcare, parental leave, social safety net, etc. Being pro-life doesn’t mean ONLY preventing abortion, or at least it shouldn’t.
Pro-life means that you care for all life – the unborn, the immigrant, the urban poor, etc.
Hi, Susan and Karin. Just want to say that, for me, the answer to your question is YES!!! I’m anti-death-of-others: old people, criminals, babies, everybody. I do not believe we have the right to end someone else’s time on this planet, period. I will admit, however that abortion will be the form of elected death that I will be most impassioned about until two things happen. One, I can not stand that people are making millions off women’s fear and vulnerability. I don’t think people should be able to make money off abortion. Two, they need to start (some places… Read more »
EDIT: Last sentence intended to read “being terminated without at least relieving their possible pain.” That was probably clear, but JIC.
BTW- also would like to add that my comments are in no way intended to shame people who have had abortions. The system is rigged against women in crisis pregnancies, and you deserve compassion, not condemnation.
I tried to post an edit a moment ago, but it didn’t take.
Anyway, wanted to say my last sentence was intended to read that I can’t believe it’s happening. That was probably clear, but just in case.
Also, I want to say that my comments are in NO WAY intended to shame people who have had abortions. The system is rigged against women in crisis pregnancies, and you have my compassion. Condemnation doesn’t help anyone.
So if you are PRO-choice, then you get to choose which lives you think matter?
That’s exactly as it seems. I am Pro-Life and while I may not like certain people, agree with their viewpoints, think they are smart, etc, I still believe that ALL life is sacred and it is not up to me to determine who matters. We are all imperfect, so why would I think I have a better understanding of who gets to live?
I also consider myself socially liberal but fiscally conservative. I am also pro-life (pro ALL life) but I would like to single out abortion because I don’t believe that women’s rights are at odds with the rights of babies. We should never take away the rights of one people group to ensure the rights of another. It would never be acceptable to allow an entire demographic to be killed because they are making it difficult for a different demographic to achieve their dreams. And yet somehow we champion behind abortion because of women’s rights? I never want my rights as… Read more »
Oh man. I think I love you. I am moderate as well-fiscally conservative/socially liberal minus the abortion issue and you have perfectly described how I feel about this. So thank you! I voted for Johnson so I didn’t really have a dog in this fight (poor choice of words or perfect metaphor?). Most of my family/friends are republicans. And voted for Trump. The reasons are: the Clintons are not trusted by them, a new conservative Supreme court justice (abortion issue above) as promised by Trump, and the economy. My husband is an oral surgeon and so most of our friends… Read more »
A bunch of people in this thread have defined themselves as “fiscally conservative/socially liberal, minus abortion,” and I’m curious where you all fall on other “socially liberal” issues like gay marriage, drug policy, capital punishment and sentencing, voting rights, affirmative action and other anti-discrimination measures, public education, funding for public works, the social safety net, etc. Really just curious where people break down on those issues who define themselves in those terms. Secondly, in an otherwise even match up, how do you weigh socially liberal versus fiscally conservative candidates when voting? Lastly, there don’t seem to be many public figures… Read more »
Except that fetuses are not a demographic. That is the beauty of choice, you do not have to choose an abortion. But you also do not have the right to decide for someone else. This is not a different feminist perspective, it is scientifically wrong. And forcing someone to continue a pregnancy is not feminist.
“People he surrounds himself with”. Please not that at least 2 of the jurors of the Bridgegate trial publicly stated that they believe Chris Christie should have been charged. Two of his underlings are facing prison time. In addition, Christie’s governing of my home state of NJ has been a complete failure ( I could state several reasons, but shan’t…) He is reviled in New Jersey. Everyone wants him to just leave. And guess what…Donald Trump is probably going to make him Attorney General.
So Trump was right…the system IS rigged.
Having worked in healthcare reform and in the insurance industry for years, I understand your frustration with the Affordable Care Act. Healthcare is still not affordable. However, the prices were projected to climb ever more and ever aggressively even in the absence of any intervention. Inside the insurance industry we sought to find every avenue to cut benefits yet charge more. We sought to keep every sick person out of our book of business, or kick them out as soon as the law allowed. That can’t happen anymore. I can almost guarantee that you will not see a better situation… Read more »
Not to mention the long term affect abortion has on crime rates, and how that translates over to law enforcement spending.
I wholeheartedly agree with you. I work for the largest insurance industry so I’m playing devils advocate here – of course its best for my job security not to have the healthcare act but I support health for all. Is the Affordable Care Act perfect? Far from it in its current state. However, it opened doors for people with previous conditions and so many other things that previously had been overlooked. Does the cost and pricing need to be addressed? Absolutely – but we’ve laid the foundation and now we need to work on the frame. it’s going to take… Read more »
Interesting perspective from within the insurance industry. Thank you for sharing.
WOW. That was enlightening (and depressing) thank you very much for sharing.
I ask this in all sincerity – what policies is Trump behind? I’ve never heard him explain anything policy related in any detail.
AMEN. He has not said anything of substance, ever. I’ve read countless articles, watched countless videos, all of the debates … He says NOTHING and you eat it up. He has no policies, no plans, nothing on record for any of his “big changes, great things” he’s ‘promised.’ Those of you who voted for Trump are either delusional or did not vote for Trump himself at all – you voting for ‘not her’ or ‘the system needs to change.’ I get it, I really do. Neither candidate was ideal or an angel. But now rather than having a supremely experienced… Read more »
And Hillary did say substantive things?
We each have to be honest and see past our biases.
Hillary is a massive policy wonk. She outlined hundreds of policies in her speeches and websites, etc. I found this in a 2 second google – may not be a particularly great article, but the point is it didn’t take much looking to find them listed out.
https://www.politiplatform.com/clinton
What about his 100 day plan? And his “contract” with America? https://assets.donaldjtrump.com/_landings/contract/O-TRU-102316-Contractv02.pdf Good things Donald Trump has done: -In 1986, Trump along with Rosa Parks and Muhammad Ali, were the recipients of the “Ellis Island Award.” He has NEVER been labeled a racist until now, and it is completely false. -fought racism/anti-semitism in Florida when the county of the country club he bought wouldn’t allow blacks or Jews. ….in the 90’s. -In 1980, he put the first female ever to supervise the construction of a sky scraper. -When Jennifer Hudson’s mother, brother, and nephew were murdered, Trump put her and… Read more »
“When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.” He called my family rapists. He said I was not the best. He said I was not like you. He said I have a lot of problems. These are his own words. This is called racism, and it cut me to core when I heard these words last summer. I love this… Read more »
You’re talking in memes. The things you are saying are easily debunked, and whatever you’re implying about the Clinton Foundation is more likely to be true of the Trump Foundation.
Facebook isn’t a legitimate source. You have to vet the “research” with non-partisan sourcing.
Dave, his website clearly states all of his policies and plans in plain English (I know b/c I scoured them when in the process of determining whom to vote for) and he did talk about those points in many of his speeches. But it’s frustrating that the campaign process doesn’t do more to allow the candidates that opportunity. I had a hard time deciphering what either of them would do if president (i.e., specific policies). I finally gave up and went to the websites. That was much more informative, and while I didn’t vote for Trump, his was (in my… Read more »
Amy, you’re right. It is all there. My point was that he has not ever said any of it himself and cannot articulate any of it. I disagree that he talked about them in many of his speeches. He spoke at many of his speeches, but said nothing. Word salad. Cannot answer a repeated direct question. This is a man who will be engaging in global dialogues around foreign policy and he can’t be bothered to read the plans his people crafted for him, commit them to memory, and speak intelligently about them.
Im not a trump supporter but to be fair have you gone on donaljtrump.com? All of his plans and policies are there.
You are not as socially liberal as you think you are. With help from his trusted advisors, Trump plans to try and overturn Roe v Wade, cut Obamacare and deport countless immigrants. All of which are social issues that should have been important to someone who cares about social issues.
Illegal immigrants will be deported.. Not immigrants. Key word which is self explanatory is “Illegal”.
Chrystie – I’d like to stop you right there at “illegal immigrants.” “When one refers to an immigrant as an “illegal alien,” they are using the term as a noun. They are effectively saying that the individual, as opposed to any actions that the individual has taken, is illegal. The term “illegal alien” implies that a person’s existence is criminal. I’m not aware of any other circumstance in our common vernacular where a crime is considered to render the individual – as opposed to the individual’s actions – as being illegal. We don’t even refer to our most dangerous and… Read more »
That is an interesting idea about the illegal label. Maybe we could come up with a better term. Isn’t “criminal” as a noun, the same as illegal? Someone who has robbed is a robber, murdered is a murderer…even if they aren’t at this moment in the act. A criminal committed a crime. Someone who is in the country illegally is committing an ongoing crime. Crossing the border and staying is not the same as trespassing and then leaving. It’s not a person’s existence that is against the law. They aren’t illegally alive. They are illegally occupying a location. That said,… Read more »
I’m don’t claim to be the most socially liberal person. I am 100% pro-choice because I see it as murder (no Need to debate this here), but I’m liberal, or fall outside of what most republicans vote, for LGBTQ issues and immigration reformation. I see Obamacare under my fiscally conservative viewpoints. I’m all about helping others, but I don’t think we should be forced to do so. And before I get attacked by that I can ensure you my family gives more to others financially, as a % of income, than most or all on this page. That’s not a… Read more »
I don’t believe that my tax money should only go to support people whose values I share. A person in need is a person in need. That’s why I believe (for example) that government-funded healthcare and welfare is a good thing, because the government should be so much better at holding out an impartial and fair helping hand. As individuals, sometimes we have a hard time being the good Samaritan.
I didn’t vote for Trump but many of my family members did. Most of them told me one of the main reasons was because the Affordable Care Act left them in a gap where their insurance plans were between 25 and 40% of their net incomes. I can empathize with you on the costs of healthcare and the ACA was a poorly fitting bandage on an already hemorrhaging system. I wholeheartedly disagree with your decision to support him but I respect your position and reasons, and I genuinely hope that the changes you were hoping for will come about without… Read more »
I don’t understand this as an ACA issue. That was a law championed by Obama, but it was passed by a bipartisan Congress. Congress makes laws and funds them, and can overturn their own laws. A president cannot overturn such a law. That’s basic Constitutional law taught in high school, not my opinion.
Just as a point of clarification, the ACA was not bipartisan at all — in fact, not a single Republican voted for it in either the House or the Senate. Obviously Congress at the time was “bipartisan,” but the legislation most definitely was not. Also, to your point on how legislation must be funded by Congress under the Constitution, a federal judge recently ruled that the administration unconstitutionally funded part of the ACA on its own, in the absence of an appropriation from Congress.
I didn’t not vote for Trump, I voted for Johnson, however what you have said is factually inaccurate. First, the ACA was passed by not one single Republican, zero. Second, congress writes and passes the laws but then the president has to sign or veto. Republicans have sent changes to the ACA to Obama and he has vetoed them. I would also add that if the Democrats were truly interested in provided more affordable healthcare to everyone they would have dropped state borders, put a cap on annual increases in costs, and opened up Medicare/Medicaid to cover those receiving subsidies… Read more »
No, the ACA was not passed on a bipartisan basis – no republican voted for it, And it was passed on Christmas Eve – middle of the night – with just enough votes to pass it. The Obama administration also didn’t tell the truth to the people about the cost, and about whether people would be allowed to keep their current plan. The republican led congress says they haven’t yet been able to repeal it is that Obama would have vetoed their legislation. Clinton would have vetoed it as well. A Republican president will likely work with the congress on… Read more »
I am coming from the other side as a doctor/surgeon. A big reason for the increase in costs is the cost of administration. It takes at least three people to manage my insurance and business side of my practice. A single payer system (while making my income come down) is the only way to decrease healthcare. If the fact that people are in the “gap” of making too much but still very little is making them vote for Trump then frankly they should examine the facts. The Republican Congress repealed this part of the law. And on a personal note,… Read more »
An honest question – you mentioned you were socially liberal. All of Trumps policies about social issues have promoted hate and exclusion. Racism. Nationalism. Bigotry. Sexism. The list goes on and on. For many, those were priorities in NOT voting Trump. How do you decide that fiscal issues become more important than social when choosing a candidate?
Unfortunately social change requires money. There are committees, organizations, charities, movements, etc that all needed to be funded and you can’t fund those things when you are in an excruciating amount of debt. This is the reason fiscal issues sometimes have to rise above social issues for a time being. Once our country is in a better economic standing there will be some stability in people’s lives and when there is stability there is room to change and improve things. Also, one of the biggest reasons Trump won last night was because lower class workers, and rural communities came out… Read more »
Thank you, Logan. I would like to know how they were overlooked. Is it becuase manufacturing left? If they had a voice what would they say? Please more and better jobs? Living in LA the economy here is good, and the overall economy of the country is good, so Is it that there aren’t enough quality jobs in the rust belt?
I think this is an excellent question Emily. The manufacturing jobs have been leaving this country long before Obama. This is technology driven, not policy driven. I have yet to hear a realistic plan by Trump to get those jobs back. Its crazy just by saying our jobs are leaving and not putting into place a plan that he won votes on this.
Our economy in Dallas is great as well and there are no shortage of jobs, only a shortage of employees so I have little personal experience with this issue so I am genuinely curious.
I’m a reader in Oklahoma (I’m crushed, too. I have huge respect for HRC, and had such hope). I work in economic development, so thought I would jump in. The easiest way to explain Logan’s point about rural communities is by the types of jobs we work today. Almost everyone has a job based on services: design, finance, sales, nonprofit, etc. Most jobs are transactional, rather than productive, in the sense that what it used to take 15 people to do or create, can be done more efficiently via technology. Rural communities have largely been centered around a single industry… Read more »
In reply to Emily’s question to Logan: people who have lost their jobs to overseas companies is just one spectrum of overlooked folks. If you can call them that. Maybe disregarded would be a better term. The classic working class jobs have been given to immigrants (some legal, some not) who are willing to take very low pay. This drives down the pay of all those jobs. Go to rural small town America and you will find them full of families who struggling to make 30k a year. Yep, the cost of one LA bathroom remodel. These are the people… Read more »
Emily, it’s just the bigger cities that have tech jobs that are doing well. The smaller towns or rural areas are struggling. SNAP…i.e…..food stamps…are up 20% under Obama. Fifty three million people get food stamps. If you don’t have employer paid insurance or qualify for assistance under the Affordable Care Act, it’s expensive! I qualify for a subsidy, but, my policy has gone from $487 a month to $652. If I made 10k more per year I would be paying the full amount.
“Logan, a college educated, white millennial”
and male, lucky you.
Logan, thank you so much! One of the main reasons I didn’t vote for Trump was because of the social issues I am more liberal on. But your explanation is so true and makes so much sense. It actually makes me feel a little better, since I can really see it from that point of view now. And you said it in such a way that wasn’t offensive, which takes some talent! I’m still concerned about the issues I hold dear, but maybe I can have hope that this will end up for the best. Thank you!
Unfortunately social change requires money. There are committees, organizations, charities, movements, etc that all needed to be funded and you can’t fund those things when you are in an excruciating amount of debt. This is the reason fiscal issues sometimes have to rise above social issues for a time being. Once our country is in a better economic standing there will be some stability in people’s lives and when there is stability there is room to change and improve things. Also, one of the biggest reasons Trump won last night was because lower class workers, and rural communities came out… Read more »
…because Donald Trump can’t make me be racist, sexist, bigot, or oppressive to the marginalized. Those are my choices in my day to day life. I choose to love others and serve them because they are important, no matter who they are. I live in Georgia. There are more illegals in my county than citizens it seems. They are my friends & co-workers, however I still believe a country has laws for a reason and to become a citizen you should do so the legal way. I’m not in the send them all back vote–I will be shocked if that… Read more »
I like that last sentence and it makes a lot of sense to me. I have another question. Jolene and Claire – what you wrote makes so much sense (I read HillBilly Elegy before the election and it helped a lot). But my question is if technology is reducing these jobs, and we can’t pull these companies back from being manufactured in another country then what is the option? Sure, reduce the amount of illegal labor that costs less, but what plan has Trump promised that made people feel that new jobs would be created?
I thought I read today (I researched since he’s the new president) that he would put tarriffs on the companies that went overseas to manufacture. So they would be more likely to move back since it would cost less/or the same to manufacture here. That combined with the illegal immigration influx better paying jobs would be more secure here.
In the spirit of Emily’s post, I am trying to construct this question as respectfully as possible. I’m wondering how socializing medicine would increase your health insurance payment? And other than healthcare policies, can you elaborate on the other policies you support that he is behind?
Thank you for sharing, Emily. This makes sense to me. You and I probably don’t agree on many issues, but the one that we (probably) agree on is that government as we know it hasn’t worked for everyone in a long time. I’m on the left coast in an affluent area. I don’t have to be concerned about safety of my kids. Or healthcare. But seeing our country look like blue parentheses on the electoral college map made me feel like I have no connection to what someone 1000 miles from me is going through. Do they deal with a… Read more »
Can I ask you something, respectfully? I am liberal and believe in women’s rights even though personally I think abortion is really really sad. Do you feel like you are looking at abortion in a vacuum? Do you see a contradiction in the way pro-life supporters tend not to support quality of life legislation for those outside the womb?
Thank you for saying that Liz. That’s one of the most frustrating parts of the Pro Life stance.
And I will say, the decision to abort must be gut-wrenching. When I recently had “a scare” (which was probably silly as it was my age at the end of my child-bearing years that created the missed period), the idea that at politicians (mostly white men) desire to take that gut-wrenching decision away from me…..truly frightening. And now they actually….can.
Thanks Liz. That is my stance as well and I like to say, just because someone is pro-choice doesn’t mean they are pro-death. I truly don’t think anyone wants to get an abortion or even be in a situation where they have to consider it but personally, I think they should be allowed that consideration (especially in cases of rape, incest, and the health of mother/baby). I think the appropriate names are pro-choice and anti-choice. I saw this political commentary before and feel like it illustrates the question Liz posed in a (hopefully) clear and respectful way. http://i.imgur.com/X4HZiYp.jpg
Pro choice doesn’t mean pro death, just like pro Trump doesn’t mean pro hate.
I realize you, Mandy, didn’t say or insinuate that, but it seems to be the assumption across the board. Just throwing it out there for those scrolling through comments.
You also accidentally made a great point. This entire election has been anti-choice in my opinion. Bad Choice vs. Bad Choice!
It’s interesting you talk about health insurance payments bigger than your mortgage, and couldn’t support Hillary in what you say are continued efforts to socialize medicine. Perhaps you don’t understand that if medicine were truly socialized, health insurance prices would cease to be bigger than your mortgage.
As someone who grew up with socialized medicine, I have to say it’s not that simple: healthcare is NOT automatically cheaper there. The costs are hidden. No one knows how much anything costs, a doctor’s visit, a procedure. Costs there have risen, as they have everywhere. People with long term illnesses are going broke there too. My health insurance here in the US has gotten much much worse in the past few years. It means I have to try to make informed decisions on my healthcare consumption. But that’s almost impossible. Have you ever tried to find out how much… Read more »
Again I was researching today what Trump wants to do (as he is our new president and I figured I better learn) about healthcare: on his website he said he wants to drop all borders so insurance companies have to compete for you to make costs go down. A part of that would be to have dr’s provide costs for procedures so you can shop different dr’s like you would a car or computer.
Every time I take my kids to the doctors, it cost me $135. My son had warts on his hand, it cost over $200 once a month for six months. I make my Dr. appointments at the end of the year, when we are finally getting close to our $5,000 deductible. I used to complain about a $20 co-pay. I miss those days. This is on top of paying a good chunk of money in health insurance. If it gets any worse, I don’t know how families will be able to afford it. On the other side, my mother receives… Read more »
Hello, I’m a Canadian who is relatively interested in the politics of my neighbours. I can assure all of a few things. First off, socialism is not a bad thing. There are plenty of digustingly wealthy Canadians despite our socialist tendencies. Secondly, we have universal health care and as middle income earner I was able to receive treatment for my recent cancer diagnosis without having to stress about insurance coverage or medical expenses. It is a well known fact that the US pays higher per capita on Medicare. Higher than Canada. Our system is not perfect and we have to… Read more »
Am! Loved this. I am from the UK (universal healthcare) now living in the Netherlands (for the first time dabbling in the world of Health Insurance). Yes the NHS in the UK has it’s issues, but I can agree with you that universal healthcare is not a bad thing! By contrast now in the Netherlands, health insurance is obligatory but structured so you would never be expected to pay out large sums for extensive treatment. For minor care, you pay up to like €300 for the whole year regardless of how many visits you make. Those seeking asylum get free… Read more »
As someone who was raised Catholic, I understand those who are Pro-Life, but it seems that so many look at it in such black and white terms. Trump has said that he wants to defund Planned Parenthood, which tends to be a pretty big selling point to Pro-Lifers. But, I’m curious, if you consider yourself a socially liberal person, but also Pro-Life, how do you reconcile this? There is a lot of mis-information that circulates about federal funding of PP and whether they use it to provide abortions. But all of that aside, research has shown that abortions are reduced… Read more »
This post resonated with me in a big way. I also feel uncertainty, and sadness that we all seem to be so divided, but I also have hope that things will get better. I hope this helps:
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/projects/cp/opinion/election-night-2016/whyi-am-voting-for-trump
I voted Trump. The NYT article GG linked above perfectly sums up why. Thanks for posting that, GG.
I see, so you overlook the bad in one but not the other. I get it. Some things resonate more with you vs me and him vs her. But the one you chose has zero experience in anything related to being in charge of a country. And has no actual plans to speak of. For me, it’s simple. I cannot in good conscience vote for a person who is very clearly not a good human. We all have flaws. I swear I must have a million flaws. But at heart, I am a good person. I have seen, read, watched,… Read more »
Dave, this is my fundamental problem too. Trump has no moral core. He is not a good person. He doesn’t fundamentally believe in anything, except his own benefit and self-promotion at whatever expense and no matter how fundamentally unfair (stiffing workers to pad his own bottom line, etc.). How can anyone trust that?
I agree. As someone who lives in an area with 8-9 % unemployment and a median income of 38k, most of the liberals I know are out of touch with the reality of the rest of the country. I’m in Fresno, Ca…where we have 10% of the nations population and 33% of the welfare case load. People’s can’t even begin to get off welfare because there are any jobs! Liberals are more worried about Global warming than people. Trump has run a company and has written paychecks. He knows how to get things done. Hillary has been a career politician.… Read more »
Parker, thanks for sharing! I’m realizing now that I’m an out of touch liberal as well, so it’s helpful to understand your perspective. One quick note, is that I care about global warming precisely b/c of the people that it is starting to affect and will affect in the long term. I can see how that might get lost with so many people in the US facing other seemingly more immediate issues.
I respectfully disagree with you about the following Clinton v Trump corruption, but just wanted to chime in and thanks (again) for sharing!
Hey Parker, I don’t think you are wrong about being out of touch (although no, I would never buy an $800 skirt). I think I found out, late last night how out of touch I am. Trying to get back in touch today 😉
Emily I really applaud your grace and desire to understand those who believe differently then you! Your attitude and perspective are not what I’ve experienced in the left/dem community. Thank you for opening up a conversation instead of more mud slinging, I think we’ve all had enough of that!
Emily, I can’t stress how refreshing it is for someone to stop and try to understand. I feel like most people are saying, I don’t get it!!! And then they settle for something like sexism, because their current assessment couldn’t possibly be wrong!! Thereby whittling people’s lives down into a simple catchphrase, meanwhile turning around and calling the other side too stupid to understand the issues. Quite ironic. I don’t really think Trump will turn things around, but neither would Clinton, if it’s true that she would be more of Obama, as Obama liked to point out.
Some facts:
1. Being concerned about global warming IS being concerned about people. People have already lost their homes to flooding due to climate change. Massive numbers of people around the world are likely to be displaced.
2. Vaccinations save lives.
3. Fresno does not have 10% of the nation’s population.
Except, Parker, there are stories abound about Trump not writing paychecks, not paying for completed and quality work, not upholding his promises, to the detriment of the working and middle class. As someone who is fighting for the middle class, I respectfully ask how do you reconcile that? How does that play into your definition of a good business man? There are also well documented instances of the Trump Foundation misusing funds – they were actually investigated and fined by the IRS. As someone who runs a non-profit organization, I have a unique understanding a what a very big deal… Read more »
I just read that, Sarah and GG. Thanks for posting it. Its very compelling.
Hi Emily, I’m 30 and live in Los Angeles. We have many things in common from what I’ve gathered by reading your blog for years! I (quietly, so as not to be harassed, bullied, or lose friendships,) stand apart from ALL of my friends in my political viewpoints. I voted conservatively because it’s where the majority of my beliefs align. In all of these responses, people seem to do the same. We have issues that are the Most important to us, in part because of our current situations, in part because of how we were raised, and in part because… Read more »
What I don’t get is how many men and women vilify her for standing by her marriage despite the affairs. Many a marriage remains intact after an affair for all sorts of reasons, but I would think fighting to maintain the sacred oath they took together should be viewed positively. To blame her for his indiscretions is unfathonable to me. Good on them that they found a way to work through it all.
MMB, because people believe she stood by him so as not to sabotage her own ambitions. On the one hand that feels like she would say anything and do anything to be president– untrustworthy. On the other, can’t blame her; she didn’t cheat, she didn’t rape anyone, so why should she pay the price.
I actually take heart in the fact that Trump is thrice divorced. Maybe we can finally get away from morality politics, and that automatic pandering to the religious right.
Ha. I hadn’t thought of his three divorced in any sort of positive way (EVER) but maybe you are right and we can get away from morality politics.
Thank you! I have a good friend who’s marriage survived infidelity and she says it hurts everytime she hears someone who condemns her for staying. People need to realize a whopping 40 percent of married couples experience infidelity in their lives and it takes a strong person to survive that, and an even stronger couple to.
Although I didn’t vote for president (despite an intense internal debate, I couldn’t make up my mind), my entire family including my husband did and they all voted for Trump for the same reason – he’s ostensibly and hopefully pro-life. They all did so reluctantly and despite disagreeing with almost every statement he’s ever made. Abortion is the key issue that governs all of their (and typically mine) voting and politically behavior. And I’ve seen evidence that Trump’s support was heavily bolstered by Christians voting for moral reasons i.e. life. I think many with different political opinions have forgotten how… Read more »
Why does it concern you so much what another woman does with her body? No one is ‘pro abortion’.
Hey Nini, please be respectful. Abortion is one of the few issues where there isn’t a real gray area. At some point, you have to choose between the potential life and the life of the mother. Anna and I disagree, but we’re all trying to do what’s right.
I am so frustrated to hear the prolife commentary without a similar fight to support those women who would otherwise have abortions after they have the baby? You better have that baby, but no paid maternity leave for you. No reasonably costing childcare. What about healthcare for that baby? You want life but don’t do a thing to protect that life after its birth.